ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

ATI has struck back at announcements made by rivals nVidia and Ageia at GDC regarding game physics and claims that both its R520 and R580 architectures already have the ability to process physics; an ability that can be utilised through software drivers. ATI also goes on to claim that not only will the Havok FX add-on work on its cards as well as nVidia's but that it will perform better on ATI hardware.

Ever since Half-Life 2 marketing demonstrated how important physics is for gaming, the race has been on between the big players in gaming hardware to figure out how to improve the experience. Both ATI and nVidia currently process physics in a similar way by loading and processing some of the physics calculations on to the GPU or, in cases of Crossfire or SLI setups, by loading all physics calculations onto one of the GPUs. There are some obvious limitations to this method such as the lack of a dedicated processor and that's where Ageia found its niche and claims that its stand alone physics processor will greatly improve gaming physics. ATI however, claims that its X1900 GPU has more than enough residual processing power during gameplay. This statement suggests that developers are not focused on getting the most out of the graphics processors and may be limiting the end user experience of their product.

To add to the confusion nVidia and Havok went through a very detailed song and dance about how great they both are at GDC and demonstrated Havok FX, an add on to the Havok API that we were told will do wonders for in-game physics on nVidia hardware. ATI, anxious to respond to such claims, claims that since in-game physics relies heavily on floating point arithmetic, its R580 architecture is ideally suited to it since it features 48 pixel shaders and suggests that it has 375 GFlops per card available for such calculations. This number compares favorably to the 10 GFlops available in the fastest widely available CPUs and the 100 Ageia will offer. Other aspects of ATI architecture such as dedicated branching logic, unified shader units and a 3:1 shader/pipeline ratio also offer advantages when performing physics calculations.

Although ATI claims it will support Havok physics fully however, its real secret weapon, it seems, will be its own physics API which it plans to offer to developers soon. The first major and obvious benefit of this is that current owners of X1800 and X1900 boards will only require a driver update to be able to enjoy the benefits. ATIs own low-level physics API will offer developers the opportunity to program for its GPU directly, skipping Direct3D and OpenGL. Developers will also have the option of using D3D and OpenGL.

Advocates of ATI's, nVidia's, or Ageia's plans claim that these benefits are enough to guarantee each of the companies will claim the physics crown but there are some voices of concern regarding the bigger... physics picture. The developemnt of the technology is fairly new and we may not be aware of all facts, one example is that although floating point calculations are important for physics, memory bandwidth also plays an important part in collision detection performance and a dedicated processor such as Ageia can deliver 2 Tb/sec, a figure that ATI's current GPUs cannot even begin to approach.

The real point that we need to stress about game physics is that the gamer has to see beyond the exuberant claims made by the manufacturers. Before you rush to buy another USD 500 card or add-on give it some time until you see how these big words find their way into games. Will all games support all forms of physics? Will the new hardware support all that? The market needs to mature before anyone can claim to be winning or even competing for that matter in the physics race. Those of you thinking of buying a card now however may be justifiably tempted by the promise of longevity given by the X1800 and X1900 range.

Comments

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

I'm not trying to be an Nvidia fanboy, but wouldnt a seperate physics prosessor be better overall? I mean, it's not very cost effective, but it takes a load off the main GPU and allows it to process the environment faster as opposed to both the physics and environment.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

Agreed, a seperate processor for physics would always be superior as long as the bandwidth of the card allows for botht the full speed of both the rendering and physics calculations, which is the route Aegia are taking.And also I would like to point out that Half Life 2 proved nothing in the physics section of gaming as there were a dozen games with the exact same physics engine (Havok 2.0) out long before HL2 hit the shelves due to the constant delays.But then againg it wouldn't be an MG article without a little fanboyism.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

Good on you MG, if they had their way we would be buying a new 500 dollar card every 6 months and now they wanna add another 200 bucks into the mix for physics. Screw them... I'm gonna make sure I get something that will last me at least 18 months before I buy

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

i think what their trying to say is, ATi's cards wont be as affected in performance drop because its not using its full capability until large amounts of physics are actually processed, so u wont really need a seperate gpu/ppu for physics until things get a little more extreme, but i do see the point ur trying to make

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

I'll admit that Half Life 2 brought new ways of using physics to gameplay, but I think it's importance on the rest of the gaming world has been overstated. With all the setbacks that HL2 suffered many games with the exact same engine beat it to the shelves, and although they may not have used the physics as diversly as Valve did, the physics were still there controlling the bullets, grenades and corpses (ragdoll)But I digress, this article is a small glimpse into the future of the graphics card market, and the message I'm getting is to hold off improving my graphics card until we see what happens next.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

My personaL oPniOn, ignor'em all, if a must, Ageia shurley is the best choise, but the truth is, forget'em all, the idea of a "PPU" is'n Mature Enough yet, Wait for the Games to Demand Alot more Physics Prossesing. cuz from What i'm Seeing right now, no one Really need'z'um, exept if they were adapted in 3D Graphics & Animation Software.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

Good advice there from MG on the wait n see side of things.Personally my thoughts would be leaning towards a dedicated card for the physics, so long as it wasnt a crazy price and took the load off the cpu then it would be worth it.Mainly because in most high end games the cpu IS the limiting factor to high frame rates.Shifting the load onto the gpu is surely gonna start affecting the speed of that. though to a lesser extent.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

I'm not sure about dedicated physics in games. Physics would have a greater impact on gameplay than Graphics.For example, in HL2, if the graphics are too slow you drop the detail and the game plays the same, only it looks worse.Change the physics and the actions and reactions may change. Or does the software/hardware scale accordingly? What impact would this have on multiplayer.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

BK, when its talking about physics, u dont get the option of changing physics 'quality' but rather it being a constant. The CPU and/or gfx card would try and render it, and if it cant along with ur gfx settings, then its a big oh well and u need to upgrade.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

ok, phystics card maybe better, but uh, haven't we just moved to pci-express so grahpics cards can handle this new speed of data, won't the physics card need its own pci-express x4 lane, surely if its that demanding a normal pci would lag over a video card doing the processing?

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

"haven't we just moved to pci-express so grahpics cards can handle this new speed of data"the fact of the card bus speed is irrelevet to what this means, having a seperate and dedicated physics chip takes a load off the gpu and cpu, not saving bandwidth, but saving processing power for the more important things that they need to render

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

Thats great if all you do is run 3d mark 06 all day but i like to play games when i have a great graphics card and whilst both cards are great i would rather have the radeon cos its faster in 90% of games.btw my current card is a 6800gt so a fan boy i aint!

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

I’d be concerned about how ATI are trying to give developers a means to code for their GPU and bypass D3D and OpenGL. How many games do you guys have that simply refuse to work, or refuse to enable certain options because they have been programmed with instructions for a certain GPU? The problem even happens with games made for older nVidia cards not working right or at all on the current generation.Waiting on a D3D/OpenGL revision or version to allow these features may take more time, developers may have to make do with slight performance hits due to the API not being specific to the GPU, but trying to do a runaround on the two APIs that bring at least a little stability and reliability to users is not wise.Gamers are not going to be impressed when they sacrifice a good portion of their wage to buy a massive new 3D card and discover that several of their favorite games can’t deal with the new GPU. Game developers are also not likely to update older games to allow for the new GPU, unless the game has a monthly subscription fee there is no reason for them to do so.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

hi there!The whole aditional physics card just sound like a ridicilus scheme to just make more money...and why you keep mentioning hl 2? Its physics was not anything special and to much attention is given for the havoc engine...where many games (especially games that are specialized for something) have much much better physics.Do you remember Tresspacer? yes i know it was a failure it was unplayable at its time because it couldnt run on any pc then...and it was too ahead of its time...BUT it had 10 times better physics then hl 2 and the whole havoc thing....

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

ageia is obviously the best choice. its only $250 and is seperate from the gpu.one highend card plus the ageia costs $700the ati and nvidia version costs about what $1000+ for SLI cards? one for graphics and the other $500 card just for physics?the ageia is already $300-400 less and the sli.or if you want really crazy s**t.. get sli and a ageia card for the best of both worlds.

ATI Ageia and nVidia - It's Physics

"smart manat 9:40 26/3/2006waste of money, current physics in games don't even dent most modern systems."Why do you post? WHY? EXPLAIN PLEASE. I WISH TO KNOW WHY.Go watch some videos from Ageia and stfu. Wait, also go play some physics oriented games, and then tell me how small of a dent physics make. Jesus.

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