Fable III Designer: Secondhand Games Worse Than Piracy

It's no secret that a lot of the major publishers and developers are actively fighting secondhand games sales which - they believe - cuts through their revenue stream. Fable III combat designer Mike West has gone one step further by likening it to piracy.

"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than secondhand sales on the Xbox," he said. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it."

"The pirates, whatever you do on whatever system, they will crack it. It might take no time ... I think the longest it's taken to happen is two days. Someone will crack it somewhere and there's not much you can do about it. It's just a depressing situation we're in that people don't think it's worth spending money on computer games."

Needless to say, secondhand sale is a legally protected consumer right that involves transfer of physical media and licenses and it can be argued that it makes $60 games more affordable.

Add new comment

CAPTCHA
This question is for testing whether you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.

Comments

Wow. Thank god I sold my copy

Wow. Thank god I sold my copy of Fable 3. After a fuck wad statement like that, I will NEVER buy another game that asshat has had anything to do with.

Piracy=ZERO profit for a company. At least with 2nd hand games, your getting the initial price out of it the first time....that's profit you fucking twit!

Apparently, if I pay 60 bucks for a game brand new, then I want to sell it, the person I sell it to should have to pay 60 bucks too, with part of that going to the publishers and developers...like double dipping.

Over-priced

In Australia we have to pay on average about $100 for new releases.

Considering our dollar is now stronger than the US, you think prices would have dropped (similar to the way they have dropped in price on Valve's Steam)...EB Games try to blame it on shipping, but come on, its not like they go off in transport or its for a niche market.

Most other prices fluctuate with the economy, not video games though. I suppose thats what happens when they are controlled by digital cartels though.

Piracy in Australia is pretty high due to this factor. Start charging fair prices and you'll see piracy will diminish. Especially when the cost makes it more convenient to go buy it than pirate it.

60$ no way, 30 bucks... way

The only game in the last three years ive paid 60 bucks for is Combat Mission Normandy. Infinate replayability, massive modding capability, and so on. I never will pay 60 bucks for a FPS, maybe a RTS, but never an FPS. What ever hapened to the awesome single player campaings? I still play the original MOH and COD because there is nothing out there that surpasses them is quality of single player mode. Now everything is fast paced multiplayer BS, spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die...... It much cheaper to make, and they sell it for 60 bucks..... I bet half of the production value goes into developing the box art and advertising, not a story and AI. I remember an old game called Reals of the Haunting that took forever to complete, or what about Jedi Outcast? Easily 15-20 hour games if you go for all the extras and have never played it before. I miss those...... And Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 , what 60,70 hours combined??? The devepers compaine about piracy, its because thier crap is no longer worth buying, buy we all still have the addiction, and hope......

LoL?

It's not just about the 60 whooping dollar plus tax pricetag on the games, its just how shitty the games are to be quickly be rebought second hand because the original buyer played, hated, and sold the game soon after. So I say why have another person pay premium to also re-sell a shitty game when they could buy it cheaper and hate it just as much?

greedy fuckers

money money money.....that guy is a right cunt. what an ignorant fucking statement to make. just look at all the retro gamers out there who look for rare games. Do you see anyone going into a shop and finding 1st hand games for neo geo, commodore 64, spectrum, snes, nes, gameboy etc etc etc??

NO YOU FUCKING DONT YOU PIECE OF SHIT TALKING VIDEO GAMES MAKER.
FUCK EM. GET A CLUE BEFORE YOU TALK SHIT!

Mike West You dumb little

Mike West You dumb little man.It all gets down to price.Their are those who can afford new products that come up every 20 seconds.But for the most of us slaves out there we are lucky to buy a new full price game 1 or 2 times a year.i myself buy about 5 new games a year mabey the same for discounted games and about the same for second hand.One thing game developers should realize is if the keep on pushing thier product to people who can not aford it only have them selfs to blame.Cut back on the adds and you might achive you goal.either way you cant always get what you want.welcome to the real word dick

Really?

Because video games have been sold second-hand for fucking years, and not just through garage sales or pawnshops. I don't recall any publishers or developers complaining back in '93.

Some of you here can try to

Some of you here can try to pretend to be honest, but when you say you finished Portal 2 in 45 minutes or so and then complain about games being rushed you lose all credibility. Portal 2 had over 13000 lines of dialogue and you can't really complain about the game's length when you rushed enough to not even listen to at least 30 minutes of dialogue. It's a puzzle game. Having patience when playing them has to be a given. Not that I believe you when you say you finished it in that time anyway.

Fuck Em

I'll be honest, there are some game developers I trust, GSC Game world for their line of STALKER games, after I played the first (pirated) I loved it so much I bought the collectors edition and all the others without even trying them first. I love Valve (for some games only, Portal 2 was great but only 1 1/2 hours of game play in single player is shit and I'm not going to buy it for that reason) for their games, I had Half-life 2 on pirate loved it and again bought the limited edition box sets and the episodes 1 & 2 because I am Hooked on them. Games these day are all too similar and have no ideas of their own or decent story, if they do have a story to them they are shite. They are too rushed and yes I know the developers are rushed and have unrealistic budgets ect but that's not my problem, if they cant sort their own business out and don't release a decent product, then they shouldn't expect me to support them. The biggest tossers that are famous for this are EA. EA needs to fuck off and die, or at least the asses who are running the show. In short, if I like a game ill buy it, if I really like it, ill buy a collectors edition for more money, but if I don't then I wont waste my money on them.

Moral

Moral of the story , the new games these days are shit , and I aint paying for shit. Id rather play a game made 5 years ago and write my own mod . Guys that write mods , and not shitty mods , good mods , like R.E.A.R.M for Homeworld 2 are the only hope we have. So screw corporate pen pushing idiots

Why do people still confuse Developers and Producers?

I wish people would stop bitching about developers. They are the poor bastards who work stupid hours trying to make a good game when all they have are producers telling them what to cut and setting unrealistic dead lines/budgets meaning many games are obliterated before it is even finished!

The people to blame are the EAs of this world!

Very true...

But if developers would stop doing things like renting two floors of skyscraper office space, having 10 vending machines per hallway, and premium office furniture...maybe they'd have a little more money. LOL

Clarification

If you buy a game be it a PC or console game you do not own that game you own the license to play that game! Thats it! That license can be revoked by the people that do own the game!

On another note i support piracy where its needed. Alot of people here have had some very good points. Lately games coming out are utterly crap! I miss the days of real games for a real price. Not some shite like COD for 60 euros. I used to work in games retail and with second hand games we made huge profits. We would buy a game in for whatever 5 euro, 10 euro, 15 euro. Then we would re-sell it for 10, 20 euro or 30 euro!

Im the same as someone mentioned above i will download a game first, i will play through it and IF and thats a big IF i enjoy the game both visually and emotionally THEN i will buy it! If its some game i can bang out and complete in 7 hours or less. No chance in hell would i pay for it. If the makers arent gunna bother their barney putting effort into making the game good, they sure as hell arent gunna get my money for the price tag they would put on their trash!

yeah

I agree dude.

I havent played a good game since Oblivion, and i bought that 5 times so far (scratched/lost) but atleast its an amazing game.

Portal2? 45 minutes of gameplay for a whopping 40 pounds? I think i get paid 9.22 per hour. So literally i have to work 5-6-7 hours including tax for 45 minutes of gameplay.

The new generation of computer owners are mugs. They have no idea what good games are. I hope the big developers go down the wrong tracks and it opens up the market again.

Fuck the corporations, with all shareholders and directors who are out to make a buck and are clueless about interactive entertainment.

Make me a good game, and i promise ill buy it.

the answer is affordable price

Developers earn more than $5000 monthly for that reason they must charge $60, but if those developers will be living in the third world they will earn barely $500 and then games will cost $6 and everybody in the world will pay that.

The answer move all those developers to the third world and pay them $500, also they can fire a lot of useless managers and CEO, who don't produce a sh*t and get hundred of thousand dollars monthly.

That's how China has become so successful, cheap products and cheap hand labor.

yes because no one has been

yes because no one has been bitching about the quailty of the games at all lately. no make them shittierthats the solution. god your a fuckhead. thats the high up devs that make 5k monthly starting low end you get about 3000-3500 before taxes of course, and less if your just a game tester and with the hours they work, they're not as well paid as you'd think thats only around 35k per year. working at a gas station I make about 18k a year...

the only thing you god right was the ceo's some of the high level AAA devs makin 100k+ a year, then of course huge profits go to the producer company that really does little more than lend the devs money and tell them what to do. also as mcuh as $60 sucks the average person(speaking for NA only here I realise the prices are kinda fucked up in the rest of the world) is making more than they did even a decade ago, or at least it looks like they are thanks to inflation. EVERYTHING becomes more expensive, you can't beat it, games, console games only (mostly) having gone up to 60 really isn't that big of a deal,makes them cheaper than they were with adjusted for inflation, form over a decade ago

You know why I pirate games?

You know why I pirate games? Most games this days sucks ass! I dont trust the developers anymore as I have done in the past, I have bought to many games that I got on a recommendation from a game-site/game magazine. But no more, if there is a demo and I like it I buy the game. If there is no demo I download the game, play it and IF I like it I buy it. Not many games make it to that list and its getting few and few each year. Developers seem to have their heads up their asses and im not helping them paying for the shit that comes out.

Uh hu..

Im sorry , but after Steam was released I wouldn't buy any games supported by it. Our countries internet is dead slow, even if you have the fastest package . I'm not going to wait a day to update my steam so that I can activate a game I payed damn lot of my hard earned money for. So screw steam , screw your anti theft software and screw game developers who moan about stupid things , and besides , piracy isn't theft. e.g. Imagine your car gets stolen tonight, thats theft , if it was pirated it would still be stolen but still in-front of your house.

"e.g. Imagine your car gets

"e.g. Imagine your car gets stolen tonight, thats theft , if it was pirated it would still be stolen but still in-front of your house."

Actually, if it was pirated, someone would have built an exact copy of it beside yours, without the immobilizer, and driven it away.

You have no idea what your talking about

I can understand you for not using steam because of slow internet connection, but piracy is theft, developers put a lot of time and effort to develop. Software is not physical, its a piece of code that is sold to provide some sort of function. These companies and developers rely on support from customers to continue to make their products and provide food on the table. When you pirate, you spit on their product and basically acknowledge that you shouldnt have to pay for it just because you didnt want to. This is not how the real world works, If you use a software a lot or like their product/service.... then pay for it because you want them to continue to make that product or service.

Piracy sucks

Piracy sucks,

It makes developers think people want thier crappy games when, really we dont. It is stealing though, no different than a dine and dash. If its a crappy game, dont play it, rather than give them an excuse to blame piracy for thier problems with low sales, rather than the crappy games themselves. I used to pirate, but now I buy because I saw the light. I only really use steam though because of the deals, 50% off, cant beat it. I think im done buying physical media, but its on the way out anyway. Subscription based services will be the norm, then piracy will really become more difficult, except for the consoles.

I dont get how reselling games is the consumers right. In the ELUA it stated we dont own the game, we just bought the temporary right to play it and they can demand the game back at any time,or discontinue support. It dosent matter anyway, soon serial codes for consoles will be required, just like PC. I always laugh when I see a copy of BF2 in a used PC game store. Do these retailers realise this, or do they prey on non-suspecting consumers?

Who wants anyone to continue making $20 games...

and sell them for $60? If I own a machine shop, & I want a pimp set of hoops for my ride & I buy one rim from lets say Enkei & I can scan it w/a rapid prototyping machine or use a CMM to make a computer model & export it to a CNC machine, or use it to make a mold for casting/forging more of them & I make 3 more of those rims for my car so I don't have to buy them, do you think Enkei is gonna come down on me? Do you think they have any right? Who the fuck are they to tell me what I can & can't do w/my own equipment & my rim that I bought? If I wanted to make 1000 of 'em & give 'em to my friends, or even sell them to them I could fucking do it & have every right. A pirate is a thief. A thief is someone who walks into a store & walks out w/something having not paid for it, or hacking a website & downloading something having not paid for it. When someone has bought a piece of software & lent it to someone else, or copied it or done whatever the fuck they want w/it because it now belongs to them & not the company that took their money for it, they are not a pirate, the receiver of it is not a pirate, it is not stealing. The reason people aren't making their own car rims similar to some corporate model is because it's difficult to do & requires technology that is not cheap or widely available. Replicating code is cheap & easy, for us & for the developers/distributors. It costs next to nothing to produce replicas of plastic & aluminium discs & absolutely nothing to distribute binary code through a network yet games on Steam are sometimes priced higher than in stores. I just bought Amnesia for about $1 less in Wal-Mart than it was on Steam. When games are already priced to high on disc, & then all the overhead of producing such versions is removed by distributing versions that are nothing more than electric pulses over a network & the prices go even higher, all you whiners can suck it & expect that copying of overpriced software will remain until you come to your senses. I frequently just wait until the profiteer feels they've screwed all they can out've the instant gratification, "gotta have the newest thing" crowd & drops the price to the $20 or so it should've been in the first place. Sometimes I'll rock a game for free & sometimes I've paid the stupid price. Fallout 3 was worth $60 for me because it's got a deep story & tons of immersive play time, plus I played Oblivion for free & loved it so Bethesda deserves some business. CoD w/its scripted, linear, invisible wallfest can GFI. Not even worth copying, nevermind stealing & sure as hell ain't worth paying $60 fucking dollars for. Suck my buttnuts, buttnuts.

Thats a very weak justification

You didnt come up with the idea for the game, you didnt spend all this money and effort to put out the product. Its a free society, coporations and developers are free to charge what they want. If you dont want it then dont pay for it, but that does not give you the right to steal their product. Stealing code is still stealing, there is a reason why there is license on software. If everyone had that logic about software being free then all software would be free. Its not because it doesnt good business sense, your talking more about customer satisfaction and being entitled to a great item because you paid XX amount for it. The world doesnt work like this, whether you like it or not you dont always get this. You can complain all you want about this and that, but at the end of the day all your doing is trying to justify why you stole it... Develop your own software and try to make a living out of it. You dont understand developers if you dont.

Thats a very weak justification

You didnt come up with the idea for the game, you didnt spend all this money and effort to put out the product. Its a free society, coporations and developers are free to charge what they want. If you dont want it then dont pay for it, but that does not give you the right to steal their product. Stealing code is still stealing, there is a reason why there is license on software. If everyone had that logic about software being free then all software would be free. Its not because it doesnt good business sense, your talking more about customer satisfaction and being entitled to a great item because you paid XX amount for it. The world doesnt work like this, whether you like it or not you dont always get this. You can complain all you want about this and that, but at the end of the day all your doing is trying to justify why you stole it... Develop your own software and try to make a living out of it. You dont understand developers if you dont.

$60?

MW2 is still about $80 in Australia (plus $10-15 for each map pack). With the Australian dollar more than 1 US dollar, why would you pay for this shit?

Add new comment