NV30 May Not be Enough

November will be a big month for nVidia, they will unveil their newest product, codenamed NV30 at the Comdex show and will once again claim the fastest graphics chip throne.
According to many analysts however, this new chip may be too little too late.
The main problem for nVidia is that the exact same chip was expected to debut several months ago, unfortunately for them the move from 180 and 150 nanometre manufacturing to 130 caused a myriad of mass-production problems for Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp. (TSMC), which manufactures Nvidia's chips.
It's being manufactured on the newest process TSMC has to offer, and that process was not ready to go into high volume until just recently, said a Mercury Research analyst. To Nvidia's credit, they probably took the time to do some design tweaks, but it has definitely meant delays

Basically, they missed the cycle, Hans Mosesmann, a Prudential Securities analyst, said of Nvidia. Really (the NV30) is a fall product that's now been pushed out for all intents and purposes to the spring.

All experts agree, if there ever was a time for the hardcore gamer to switch to ATI this is it. The RADEON 9700 offers the fastest, currently available, graphics processing and also supports, the as yet unreleased, DirectX 9. The competition does not yet have a release date.

Once the NV30 does hit the stores, it will be 25 to 50 per cent faster than the RADEON 9700, experts say, that is not enough.
The NV30 is a great product, Mosesmann said. It's going to be better, but not good enough...It's going to have to be twice as fast as the 9700 for people to look at it and think about switching.

As the holiday season, the most prolific in hardware sales, approaches, nVidia will most likely only offer a few thoudand pieces of its new chips while the main bulk of the product is expected to be available in January 2003. While all this will be happening however, ATI will not be sitting idly by. ATI have already begun making their move into the mainstream market, responsible for the overwhelming majority of revenue, by releasing the RADEON 9500, a stripped down version of the 9700 which will be available for under USD 200.

We've got a horse race again, said the same Mercury Research analyst.

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NV30 May Not be Enough

Lol, Analysts are more concerned with their portfolio's then anything else. I do agree with the possibility that if the NV30 is only 25%-50% faster then the 9700, and this is not even factoring in the revised 9700 running DDR2 system memory that will be available around the same time as the NV30 is released, it might be tough to convince consumers to spring for the extra cost this card will be over the 9700. Because for me, if the NV30 will cost 100 smacks or more then the 9700 and only increase speed marginally, i will stick to the 9700 and pocket the extra cash and spend it on booze and large breasted trullops at the bar.......

NV30 May Not be Enough

im sorry to say but the analists are right on this one as most computer games come out in the spring and fall and that is when new grafic cards make a profit when they come out. Nvidia here is just hoping that the Winter shopping season with Christams and all will bring in the sales, but it has not in the past so i dont see why it would now. But its still going to kick ATI A$$ but not as how much as i would of liked 25-50% or more like 35% in reality is not enough. Accoring to a small rule technology must go 2 fold from a year before mening if its 100 year 1 then it has to be 200 2nd year and 400 the 3rd if they dont have at least 50% they are going to have trouble selling.

NV30 May Not be Enough

Why can't you if-its-not-nvidia-i-think-it-sucks people gonna learn that your "SUspa OMGZ zROCkSAROZz CARD" may, MAY, be slower or on par with the 9700? You don't know until we have clear benchmarks. So stop shooting shit until you know whats what.

NV30 May Not be Enough

well i will just buy the best card for the best price i can afford in january/february next year wen i build a new pc.simple as that, if i think ati is good for the price at the time, then ill get the ati card, or vice versa.

NV30 May Not be Enough

ATI drivers have probelm with almost everygame FFS nv30 will be the bomb no matter what anybody say's i dont care if ATI fanboys want move from 9700 to nv30 their loss let them keep their shit cards wit the shit drivers i swear someone tell s me ati drivers are good ill slap his ass from left to right

NV30 May Not be Enough

matthestar seems to be one of the few people in here that actually use they're brain. Look people, just because a card is advertised to be more powerful than another doesn't mean shit. The Matrox card was supposed to kick Nvidia's ass the way the Matrox was selling it. If Nvidia's NV30 is the same price as the ATI 9700 Pro, then get the NV30. Might as well get that %25-%50 boost! If its substantially more expensive, get the 9700. The way I look at it, ATI will probably keep it's 9700 pro's price up as high as it is until the NV30 comes out. Then they will slash it's price to try and make the perfomance boost not seem worth the price. ATI made a good marketing decision and they are reaping the rewards for it. Now Nvidia is going to have to come up with a marketing decision of they're own to counter ATI's. But for all you guys who actually think that either company is makeing a ton of money off these top of the line cards are widely mistaken! Both ATI and Nvidia make what I call shit cards. Nvidia's MX chipsets and ATI's 9000 chipsets. Both of these chipsets are pieces of out of date crap, made to make you believe you bought a performing card. The reason they make these "shit cards" is because there are more morons out there who believe anything they hear or read, and will buy these pieces of shit, then there are people who study and actually find out the truth. The only thing these "top of the line" cards are is a marketing tool so that they can get the recognition so that 60% of the population will buy the shit card rip offs. This is the reality of most of you people's "ATI SUCKS" and "NVIDIA SUCKS" moronic remarks. Both companies would release nothing but shit if they could make more money. The only good thing of this entire commotion is that there is enough competition to keep giving us, the consumer, better and better and better video cards. Just keep this in mind if you actually were able to read this entire thing. :)

NV30 May Not be Enough

The Hardcore gamers will never switch to ATi, simply because nvidia has consumed us...yes me myself is a progamer and i am positive about this. we took a poll of how many ppl are using nvidia and how many ppl are using Ati...it turns out to be that more than 98 percent of the players choose nvidia over ati, simply because nvidia has owned us. =

NV30 May Not be Enough

LOL...John Wu this is the same thing people said of 3DFX. In this game of G.P.U'S you are only as good as the last product that was released(on time). Just as though many Nvidia fan-boys and so-called PC experts said ATI could never release a card that would be capable of competing with Nvidia. Will guess what? They have and right now it's better. Including the budget cards also. Not the 9000 of course as that's a piece of crap like the mx line of cards for Nvidia......Because don't try and tell us that hardcore gamers will not change to ATI cards ever. LMAO. Because if the NV30 turns out to be a bust. You tell me whta will happen then. And anyways the market is not targeted towards the high-end market anyways. Only 1% of sales comes from the top performing video cards. It's the budget cards that make the most money.

NV30 May Not be Enough

Basically your all f**ked up in the head!!Okay in theory the Nv30 will kick the ass of ATIs 9700 - but who cares..Ati will make another kickass gfx card by that time and nvidiots will start crying again for buying such an overpriced piece of bullshit called nvidia Nv30!!! Nvidias goin DOWN!!!! SUCKERS!!!!

NV30 May Not be Enough

Whoo hoo!!!! I just bought me a 9700 Pro and can I say HOLY SHIT! And what are these f**kers saying about bugs and drivers! I've tried every game I own old and new (Including UT2003 and NOLF2) and all play perfectly at AGP 8X! Any ways, I get over 100 fps with everything cut on on every game (FULL FSAA)! This card kicks SO much ass! And Need For Speed: Hot Persuit 2!!!!! WOW!!! Anyways, Gotta get back to Asherons Call 2 beta.... Guys, get this game when it comes out!!! The world actually physically changes! It's actually more like an RPG than overglorified chat programs like Everquest! OK OK OK! Enough ranting.... Just wanted you guys to know how sweet this card is!

NV30 May Not be Enough

"The Hardcore gamers will never switch to ATi, simply because nvidia has consumed us...yes me myself is a progamer and i am positive about this. we took a poll of how many ppl are using nvidia and how many ppl are using Ati...it turns out to be that more than 98 percent of the players choose nvidia over ati, simply because nvidia has owned us. = "I seriously doubt you're a programmer, or one that is any good."Well I dont think hosting a program crack web site is "aloud" eaither"Does this look like Cracks.com to you? This is a gaming site and i don’t see cracks openly advertised anywhere so you should either a) check your eyes or b) “allow” me to just say STFD... thx

NV30 May Not be Enough

Hey moron... I mean chillaxer... Look at the right of your screen... See those two little words "Game Fixes"?... Do you know what most of those are?... They are... CRACKS... They are modified EXEs or small programs that modify them... You know what?... Those are illegal!... But you know what?... No one cares!.... And you know what else?... You dont have to openly advertise them to host them!... So you know what this all means?...You should either A) go over your internet knowledge (if any) or B) "allow" me to just say STFU... FU

NV30 May Not be Enough

actually high end cards (which is what we are talking about) sell year round. obviously they sell more when there is a big games rush (as in xmas) but to think sales stop come january 1st is ridiculous.ati driver problems (gfx probs) are usually to do with things like lighting. incorect coloured lighting in quake 3 being an example.people who says that there arent any problems (this means all gfx cards) with some games obviously dont know what they are talking about.and sabotage chipsets like the ati 9000 are not shit they are budget. buying an ati 9000 will give a huge boost to games if you only currently have say a geforce1 etc. it will also do it at a reasonable price. not all of us are rich, some of us do actually have families (as in wife and child) and a mortgage. its called having a life. :)

NV30 May Not be Enough

The Radeon 9000 is a waste of money. Period. And if you have a family and mortgage and kids, then you need to spend wisely. Spending on a budget card that has no features in it is a bad way to allocate your funds. Just as the MX line of cards from Nvidia is shit. Buy a 9500 or 9500pro for a few more dollars and you get so much more. And high-end cards only account for 1% of total sales for the G.P.U. market. The other 99% is where the coin is at. This is why both companies release budget cards to grab the market share.

NV30 May Not be Enough

DRDEATH i have to disagree. buying an ati 9000 or for a bit more an nvidia 4200 for those of us on a budget is a good upgrade when going from ancient gfx cards. to go from a directx 7 card to directx 8 (with hardware pixel and vertex shaders) is actually a reasonable step up. i have seen the 9000 (non pro) for sale for $169 (Aus that is) compared to $800+ for the 9700 (non pro of course). the 9500 will most likley be somewhere between. again for those on low budgets the 9000 is a good upgrade from very old cards.and yes i know the budget cards are where the most money is made but we are talking about the NV30 being released, that is a top end card and the budget versions will of course follow it.

NV30 May Not be Enough

dragg, I understand that everyone's not rich but the reason I refer to these so called "budget" cards as shit cards are because if you took a performance per buck ratio of the two cards, the TI 4200 or the 9500 cards WAY out do any 9000 or MX card. Budgeting doesn't mean buying the cheapest piece of crap on the market. It means buying a card that will last longer (you don't have to buy another video card quite as soon) and is lower priced. I bought a Geforce 2 Pro about 3 months after it's release for about $200. It took 2 years, and I just upgraded to a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 for $150. That means I had a card that kicked every game's ass and only spent 100 a year. I probably will keep this 4200 for quite a while. Now if you want you can buy a shit card every year, or get a good well-performing card that will last a fair while. Never buy a top of the line card right off the bat because the prices will always drop once the newness has worn off. If you can keep right in the mid range, you will never be disapointed in performance and it wont cost you an arm and a leg. This way you, your wife, your kid, and your "life" can all live in harmony.

NV30 May Not be Enough

why does everyone thonk that hardcore nvidia users are going to switch to ati because they are a few months behind schedule? When nv30 does come it will offer bleeding edge technology for the same price as 9700. and i hate to be the one to tell you all but there are no dx9 games to play as of yet and even if there was one it would not be enough to make me so impatient that i can't wait a month or two more. nvd=idia has been very good to us all with support and driver updates more frequent than my sock changes, all the while ati let their customers swing in the wind... now think about it can you wait 2 months more?besides you should currently be using a geforce 4ti product which plays all current games perfectly anyways, so again, WHAT IS THE FREAKING RUSH?

NV30 May Not be Enough

If GF4 Ti is playing all games perfect right now(which it can't anymore) then what is the 9700 Pro playing it at? Uber-perfect? ROFL! anyways, ATI drivers have improved considerably and I have not run into any problems whatsoever. I also own many NV cards, they run fine also, but 9700 Pro kills. Thats why I switched, I'll probably end up buying NV30 also, who cares.

NV30 May Not be Enough

gods hitman and drdeath how are you in ever forum and type so damn much you to poo_po man thats crazy but any way i wish i could type that fastget a free xbox or playstation 2 at[url removed] did why cant you

NV30 May Not be Enough

Sabotage, i understand what you are saying but my point was that if you couldnt afford to upgrade to the top cards then an upgrade to the budget cards will still give you a reasonable boost. you will see i also mentioned the 4200 as an option but here in Aus it is just under twice the price of the ati 9000. what i was also pointing out was that if people are still running say a geforce1 card (or god forbid a tnt2 m64 etc) but look at the top end cards and decide they will just wait to upgrade then thats wrong. if people are intending to play the latest games they need to upgrade to something better and it doesnt have to be a top end card to get a benefit.oh and if you but a budget card using your head then you dont have to upgrade every year either.

NV30 May Not be Enough

I guess the main argument is decided between what you do with your computer really. Myself, I play computers CONSTANTLY cuz in Alabama, it's the only thing to do that doesn't represent subculture. So usually I buy games as soon as they come out and I play them rigorously! I usually play them over and over and over again. I've played Rune 13 times all the way through. So to me, performance is essential. Also, for one, I don't want to constantly upgrade. I like to build my computer, tweak it out to top performance, and then leave it alone until I need to upgrade again. So I want the best I can possibly allocate money for.You on the other hand so not seem as such a hardcore gamer so performance isn't as big of an issue. You probably have a hand full of games you play on a regular basis.The only real reason I refer to these cards as "shit cards" is because of the desception. There is NOTHING Geforce 4 about a GF4 MX chipset. Just as much as as there is nothing "9000" based as a next gen video card. The 9000 makes people think they are getting a version of the 9700 chipset given the 9000 series sounding name. The truth is that is sucks compared to an 8500 and is only 20% faster than a 7500 at round about twice the price.[url removed] are the reasons I hate these "shit cards". They are like ballons. They look all big but they are just full of hot air. It's like buying a corvette with a 4 cylinder engine.

NV30 May Not be Enough

Look, the average gamer does not buy a new graphics card until they need one. IE, they buy some new game that they really want to play, then they bring it homw and find out, and find out "Ooh S***, why wont this game run?" THey go to the store, and some high school kid who knows nothing about computers tells them " You need a better graphics card." So here they are, they've just spent 50 bucks on this game(which is too much in theyre eyes to begin eith) and now they got some smuck telling them they need this card.So they look at the wall of graphics cards, and the guy tells them that, pretty much all these cards will run they're new game. Which in most cases is the truth. So most will say, ok I dont want the worst card here(usually they'll have ATI 128 expert or something) but I wanna get the most bang for my buck. But these peoeple dont want to spend no 300 bucks on the top of the line card, so they look at that 100 dollar price range. In the end they end up buying one around there, maybe the GF4mx420 for 90, maybe the Gf4 4200 for 140. But to try and justify that the 4600, or the 9700 are worth the extra 100-150 bucks is just nuts. These people dont NEED that card, and they dont want to waste the 100 bucks. And all you schmucks that think these cards are so great, I will be laughing at you, when I get the same card you just bought for 300 bucks for a 150 in just a few short months. Its all relative. New cards are always overpriced, they're is no sense in buying them, unless you have money to throw away, and a pathetic little ego to feed telling all your friends. "I'm so cool, cause I have the best card on the market"

NV30 May Not be Enough

Im from, scotland and i just upgraded ma geforce 3 ti 200 to the geforce4ti4200 128mb ram for a lowly £110 (like $80) which cant b rivalled!Everything I play goes perfect, be it unreal tourney 2003 to no one lives forever 2! Why anyone inthe right mind needs to spend 300 on a card is beyond me!NV30 will be gr8 but wait for 6 months and that will b out of date and the GeForce 6 will b announced, it really is a farce!

NV30 May Not be Enough

I dont think the Nv30 will be enough if this keeps up, "Hardcore gamers will never switch to ATI" and the like crap motto's get old fast and im sure most people dont want to support a group whose earned the nickname Nvidiots, if your going to really want to sound convincing in an argument which most Nvidia fanboys ive met dont... perhaps explain why?,anyway alot of modern games are being built off ATI's cards now, i still remember when advertisements in PCgamer proudly stated "Built for GeForce 3", well dont be surprised when you see a Radeon in place there soon,as for Drivers, ATI has improved well enough with its Catalyst drivers to make the Detanator for the gf3's look pale in comparison, so new buyers dont have to worry about driver issues any longer and they cant be used as a scapegoat to better Nvidia's card, so finally we can go Straight to the benchmarks to see whose who, and from the looks of it with the revised 9700 coming soon, well indeed see whose the graphics leader.

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