GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

"We have now established that nVidia's Detonator FX drivers contain certain detection mechanisms that cause an artificially high score when using 3DMark03. We have just published a patch 330 for 3DMark03 that defeats the detection mechanisms in the drivers and provides correct results." this is how Futuremark introduce their latest patch for their popular 3DMark03 software.

Saratoga, Calif.-based Futuremark issued a statement claiming that nVidia tweaked software needed to run its new GeForce FX 5900 chip, in order to distort performance in Futuremark's 3DMark 03 testing application. Futuremark is one of the leaders in software and services for performing PC benchmark tests.

According to Futuremark when the patch was applied a drop of as much as 24.1 per cent was observed in certain nVidia products, while competition products performance-drop stayed within the margin of error of 3 per cent.

An nVidia spokesperson said Since nVidia is not part of the Futuremark beta program (a program which costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars to participate in), we do not get a chance to work with Futuremark on writing the shaders like we would with a real applications developer. We don't know what they did, but it looks like they have intentionally tried to create a scenario that makes our products look bad.

ATI meanwhile are not too keen to capitalize on another, possible, embarassment for their rivals. ATI's Dave Baumann, partly in response to nVidia's statement said:
Despite still being a full Futuremark Beta member, ATI did not make it out of the report entirely unscathed either. There is a performance difference of about 8 per cent in Game Test 4, that accounts for about a 2 per cent difference in the final 3DMark03 score, between the new and old versions, indicating that although not visually different something was occurring on this particular test.

In order to add further validity to the importance of benchmarking tests ATI's Christ Evenden stated:
The 1.9 per cent performance gain comes from optimization of the two DX9 shaders (water and sky) in Game Test 4 . We render the scene exactly as intended by Futuremark, in full-precision floating point. Our shaders are mathematically and functionally identical to Futuremark's and there are no visual artifacts; we simply shuffle instructions to take advantage of our architecture. These are exactly the sort of optimizations that work in games to improve frame rates without reducing image quality and as such, are a realistic approach to a benchmark intended to measure in-game performance. However, we recognize that these can be used by some people to call into question the legitimacy of benchmark results, and so we are removing them from our driver as soon as is physically possible. We expect them to be gone by the next release of CATALYST.

What does all this mean however? Most knowledgeable gamers do not buy a card based, solely, on the score achieved in a benchmarking test. It is reliability, performance and value for money which usually determine which card is bought. Benchmark tests are mainly utilized in order to claim the performance crown, giving the bearer increased prestige and an advantage created by the publicity. All that cheating on tests will achieve is to render such tests useless and to create consumers who do not trust the manufacturers. Unfortunately, this time, the reputation of the biggest graphics chip manufacturers has been questioned and there is little chance that they will make it out of it without some doubt remaining in the publics mind. Doubt which can only be cleared by the release of solid, reliable and high quality products.

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GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

They sure do. Most vendors do. And Nvidia cares also if they did not they would have not released that bullshit joint statement right after Dell gave support to futuremarks. Perfect timing huh? lol. Right after the largest OEM company gives support to the very company Nvidia says their test is not valid? lol. No wonder the statement is half-assed.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Good ol' Anon is out of arguments.Dude, we know that DRDEATH knows english and would have said "trolls" if he had posted that.In other news, I wish the people at Battlefield: Galactic Conquest would release a beta of their mod. I know there's a lot of work to be done on it still, but I'm itching to play some Battlefield with star wars vehicles and weapons.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

from teh site with that...- NVIDIA: FM purposedly created a bad scenario for our products because we withdrew from their BETA program as we couldn't afford the hefty fee.- NVIDIA pimps (HardOCP etc): discredit 3DMark, question everyone's motive except NVIDIA's, discredit 3DMark again, and post a "Benchmarking Rights" article proclaiming they are the know-it-alls when it comes to benchmarking computer products.- NVidiots:+ It's a simple driver bug, who cares ?+ HEY ATI CHEATED TOO !+ Who cares about 3DMark ? It has 0 credibility.+ ATI is suspicious. They and FM are taking revenge.etc.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Good ol' Anon is out of arguments.Dude, we know that DRDEATH knows english and would have said "trolls" if he had posted that.In other news, I wish the people at Battlefield: Galactic Conquest would release a beta of their mod. I know there's a lot of work to be done on it still, but I'm itching to play some Battlefield with star wars vehicles and weapons.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Then you're a f**king loser Anonymous. I am running a 9500pro and no issue with it. You might want to do a clean driver install you f**king moron before you install new drivers. Idiot. And it could be your pc you dumbass. What kind of shit box motherboard are you running? And Anonymous you need to learn to spell. Cadalyst? lol. And you are the same Anonymous asshole that is talking shit. This f**king forum is about Nvidia cheating. DeQ and drdeath are just posting f**king facts to show it. Facts from all over that prove it. If you are soooo f**king dim-witted not to see that they did and strong armed threatened people to get them to say otherwise, then you're as f**ked as the Nvidiot fanboy that you are.If ATI cards ran shit. Then i would say f**k them too. If they lied like a whore like Nvidia has been doing lately, i would say f**k em too. I ATI cheated the same way Nvidia has done in this test which throws a doubt on the doom3 tests and some others. I would say f**k em also again. I am spending my money on these cards and don't want the f**king bullshit from them. I have no f**king favorites. At this point i chose ATI. If they f**k up. It will be Nvidia if they get their lying asses shit together. ANONYMOUS. YOUR A f**kING IDIOT.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

This is from Beyond3d..."Actually, I'm not sure -- was 3DMark03 released after FM knew NVIDIA wanted to pull out of FM's beta program, or did NVIDIA pull out while 3DMark03 was in development and while NVIDIA was a beta member? If NVIDIA was a beta member during 3DMark03's development (which, on a important related note, means that they more or less know how their NV3x would perform in 3DMark03), at what specific stage did they pull out?Patric... Aki..? Is revealing this sort of info confidential?"_________________Anthony Tan"Reverend"Beyond3D"No it is not confidential (the reason for confidentiality is to make sure that we protect any information that is given to us during the Beta Co-operation) and I think it's already been mentioned elsewhere too. Nvidia left the Beta Program 1st of Decembers 2002. 3DMark03 development took 18 months all together and the product was released in Feb 03.Cheers,"AJ_________________Aki JärvilehtoVP, Benchmark ProductsFuturemark CorporationBy all accounts by this admission, Nvidia was involved in the Beta process up until Dec. 2002 They knew how there card would have operated. How could they not? The final product was released just 2 months later! And then balked about it and discontinued their membership. Not good PR for Nvidia.3dmarks2003 might not be a "true" test of games, but the way Nvidia has handled this whole mess looks plain bad. They look like whining little babies. They should have at least admitted certain facts and issues. However, they have not as of yet. Nor did they release that "new" driver version to fix that "bug" All looks bad.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

not all looks bad. Only this test. The driver in any other given situations is a pure champion. It runs games beautifully and has enhanced the Card like its meant to. After all, who gives a shit whether or not a benchmark runs good, if the games run perfect? Those who do, arent buying the cards for what there meant for are they? Do you feel god having a hundred points more than ATi/Nvidia mates? LOL, when they beat you ingames by 10fps or more.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Same Anonymous telling everyone to get a life. When this same asshole keeps posting this same statement over and over and over again. You need to get a f**king life Anonymous. Your posting is becoming f**king gay like you. And your multiple id usage is f**king gay too asshole.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Lets all just wait until the 5900ultra and doom3 come out. Then we can all meet up and run the game on the same computer but switching to are own graphics cards to do the benchmarks. That way we can see which is best :D

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Gonzo: I don't know why you'd have to mess with drivers for any Radeon card. Mine work 100% of the time without touching them, except to upgrade them for better performance once every few months. Sounds like you're the only one having problems. Maybe it's just you.>" Is it nice watching peopl play games you cant cause you have to screw with your drivers for hours to play the game :)"<No, it's fun playing games that other people can't smoothly with all the eye candy turned up all the way. (with good image quality and no driver problems)

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

SSCREW:>"Futuremark or jsut too uptight. Nvidias "cheats" did nothing to the Visual Quality or experience. Had those some "cheats" been done in a game, the game would not be affected in any way, except it would run better, since thigns offscreen werent being rendered. Why does Futuremark want them rendered anyway?"<See, that's not exactly how it works. Their cheats would not work in normal games because it's not the exact same scene every time. This is what allowed them to have phenomenal (25% better) performance in 3dmark. The drivers cheat because they were programmed to know exactly what the scene would be. It would not be able to do that in a game, or if you alter the scene in the slightest way, like say, turning the camera to see a slightly different portion of the scene (which by the by is not being rendered by nVidia's drivers.)That would be great in a game... oh yeah, it speeds the games up as long as you don't turn to the right.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Well lets have a look at the severity of the cheating here. Go to extremetech.com and read what they have to say because it is ver y relevant first of all, and if you do read it properly you will find out that ATI also suffered a performance hit of MORE than 3% in most games. Many review sites have said that they don't trust 3dmark (01 or 03) because of reasons like this, before any of this came about. Now onto the cards performance. Most hardware sites shows that the fx5900ultra is ahead in almost all tests even if it is by not so big a margin (tomshardware.com), so why are we all ranting and raving about this? For one, I have never used 3dmark as a comparison between computers i always used good old Q3arena even if it is a bit old. Now just to round off let me say that i am NOT an nvidia fan boy, because i would say the same thing about ATI if this happened to them. So next time look at game tests not 3dmark before you judge a card.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Hey, if dr.d hates Nvidia which i doubt highly, he probably hates the company's f**king bullshit really. All their lying and cheating with this whole benchmark crap and bullshit with the 5800. Hell i hate them for doing that too. When asshole companies pull shit like this, it just f**ks over us the consumer. We are the ones that suffer. And if you nerds cannot see that, and are blinded by the fact that you are lovers of Nvidia regardless how many lies and cheats they shove in your face, then god help you puppets.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Only thing Anonymous, the 5900 is not that much beter or faster then the 9800. They are real close. With image quality going to the 9800. But even that's just by a little. Both are great cards. You got $500us for either one?

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Lets have a poll quickly:Which souns better?:Doom3orHalf-life 2oh and DRDEATH is right, while these cards will push a decent amount of frames in doom3, the nv40 and r400 will outstrip these two by a great deal

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Anyone notice that Anonymous down there says "Stop double posting you spammer" except he was the one who double posted DRDEATH's second message and then my message and then Lex's?Wow, you're so sneaky. It's hard to tell that you posted all of those... Hmmmm...16:2716:2816:2916:3016:33I guess it took you a few minutes to think of that last awesome putdown. Ugh.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

DRDEATH "And i find it funny joker that you have nothing to say on this forum."Okay, maybe it was a 12 year old but anyways, who cares.I know I have nothing to say on this forum and why you ask, because who the f**k cares about ATi and Nvidia or any other video card market out there. Video cards are way over priced and I can certainly spend that $500 on something more useful and better and not only that, new video cards come out every 6 months and its becoming ridiculous and stupid. I would rather buy a xbox or gc or ps2 which have still great graphics, great games and great gameplay and for a whole lot of fun and consoles last for about 4 to 5 years and 6 max.Thats my opinion and thats what I think and if you dont like it, well, I have to words for you all, f**k YOU!.

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