GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

"We have now established that nVidia's Detonator FX drivers contain certain detection mechanisms that cause an artificially high score when using 3DMark03. We have just published a patch 330 for 3DMark03 that defeats the detection mechanisms in the drivers and provides correct results." this is how Futuremark introduce their latest patch for their popular 3DMark03 software.

Saratoga, Calif.-based Futuremark issued a statement claiming that nVidia tweaked software needed to run its new GeForce FX 5900 chip, in order to distort performance in Futuremark's 3DMark 03 testing application. Futuremark is one of the leaders in software and services for performing PC benchmark tests.

According to Futuremark when the patch was applied a drop of as much as 24.1 per cent was observed in certain nVidia products, while competition products performance-drop stayed within the margin of error of 3 per cent.

An nVidia spokesperson said Since nVidia is not part of the Futuremark beta program (a program which costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars to participate in), we do not get a chance to work with Futuremark on writing the shaders like we would with a real applications developer. We don't know what they did, but it looks like they have intentionally tried to create a scenario that makes our products look bad.

ATI meanwhile are not too keen to capitalize on another, possible, embarassment for their rivals. ATI's Dave Baumann, partly in response to nVidia's statement said:
Despite still being a full Futuremark Beta member, ATI did not make it out of the report entirely unscathed either. There is a performance difference of about 8 per cent in Game Test 4, that accounts for about a 2 per cent difference in the final 3DMark03 score, between the new and old versions, indicating that although not visually different something was occurring on this particular test.

In order to add further validity to the importance of benchmarking tests ATI's Christ Evenden stated:
The 1.9 per cent performance gain comes from optimization of the two DX9 shaders (water and sky) in Game Test 4 . We render the scene exactly as intended by Futuremark, in full-precision floating point. Our shaders are mathematically and functionally identical to Futuremark's and there are no visual artifacts; we simply shuffle instructions to take advantage of our architecture. These are exactly the sort of optimizations that work in games to improve frame rates without reducing image quality and as such, are a realistic approach to a benchmark intended to measure in-game performance. However, we recognize that these can be used by some people to call into question the legitimacy of benchmark results, and so we are removing them from our driver as soon as is physically possible. We expect them to be gone by the next release of CATALYST.

What does all this mean however? Most knowledgeable gamers do not buy a card based, solely, on the score achieved in a benchmarking test. It is reliability, performance and value for money which usually determine which card is bought. Benchmark tests are mainly utilized in order to claim the performance crown, giving the bearer increased prestige and an advantage created by the publicity. All that cheating on tests will achieve is to render such tests useless and to create consumers who do not trust the manufacturers. Unfortunately, this time, the reputation of the biggest graphics chip manufacturers has been questioned and there is little chance that they will make it out of it without some doubt remaining in the publics mind. Doubt which can only be cleared by the release of solid, reliable and high quality products.

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GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Nvidia rules and i like to suck on Shin lori's small c**k. The frame rates for the 5900 are awesome like a fat c**k up my wide asshole. I wish i could shove every nvidia card ever made up my wide asshole. I have only done this with a gforce3 and gforce2 card. Those are just not big enough to fill my asshole up. I need something big. Can anyone help me out? I am on welfare and cannot afford to buy a $400 card to shove up my ass and lick it clean. Shin lori, can you help me please? After i can shove the card up your ass and lick it clean.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

HAHAHAH!!!!! AMERICAN ARE TRULY MESS UP. YOUR PRESIDENT LIED ABOUT THE WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. IRAQ NEVER HAD ANY WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. AMERICAN WANT TO GO IN THERE FOR OIL. YOU MAKING IRAQI SUFFERS FOR OIL. YOU NEVER WANT TO FORM A GOVERNMENT IN IRAQ. YOU WANT TO PLACE A PUPPET GOVERNMENT. SCREW YOUR GOVERMENT FOR MESSING UP THE WORLD. IF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT CAN LIED ABOUT IRAQ, WHY CAN'T NVIDIA. YOU AMERICAN BELIEVE YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING BECAUSE YOU CALLING ALL THE SHOTS.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

You know how they said the DET 44 is a good improvement over the det40. I don't know about that. Since installing them I have seen very noticable speed reductions on battlefeild and slightly on unreal II. Its quite frustrating. I think I might switch drivers if I can.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Another loser trying to get everyone to argue with him about politics. lol. It won't work loser. As everyone knows you're some 14 year old american grade school dropout. Everyone. Don't even respond to these political rmearks on these forums. Don't feed the animals.....

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

"As you have probably heard, with the release of Futuremark’s 3DMark03 benchmark relations between its developer and NVIDIA Corporation were badly damaged. NVIDIA said that 3DMark03 game-benchmarks unfairly favoured graphics cards based on ATI RADEON 8xxx and 9xxx-series graphics processors while solutions powered by GPUs from NVIDIA showed too weak performance in the latest FutureMark’s benchmark. NVIDIA was so dissatisfied with this fact that it left FutureMark's beta program in late 2002.Starting from February this year some strange things with 3DMark03 and NVIDIA Detonator drivers have happened. There were famous Detonator 42.68 drivers with improved performance in 3DMark03. There was NVIDIA pressuring some online media in an attempt to avoid benchmarking the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra with 3DMark03 (see our news-story here). And now there are two more episodes involving NVIDIA Detonator drivers and FutureMark 3DMark03 benchmark.French 3Dchips.fr web-site has found that during 3DMark2001 SE Dragothic scene with the GeForce FX 5600 Ultra and FSAA and anisotropic filtering turned on the dragon disappears, leaving the Amazon mysteriously flying without any hard surface under. You can read about this strange thing in French here (translated version here).The latter case is quite serious and can even give some ground for rather unpleasant conclusion about NVIDIA’s driver optimisation policy. ExtremeTech observed NVIDIA GeForce FX cards using developer version of 3DMark03 and recently released 44.03 Detonator FX drivers. The developer version, which is available only to selected partners of FutureMark, and lets not only to watch the benchmark scenes, but also to pause them and move the camera freely through the whole scene. Using this ability of 3DMark03 ExtremeTech has found that if you move the camera anywhere outside the “normal” path, i.e. the path, it travels during ordinary benchmarking, the image on the screen gets seriously distorted in some strange w

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

but I like feeding animals :D.Dude, I can just go play Doom3 on xbox and who cares if the graphics are toned down from the PC version, it will still be just as good. I bet microsoft will make keyboards and mice for Xbox sooner or later just for doom3.I'm glad tho that you mentioned Doom3 instead of Gay-Life 2. HL2 doesnt look promising and nor the graphics dont impress me from what I seen so far. Hell, I think saw PS2 graphics better then that and PS2 been out for 4 years and dont say 3 years cuz PS2 was released in Japan 1999.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

...... some strange way. ExtremeTech sent a report about this problem to NVIDIA and the company answered that it has no access to developer version of 3DMark03, since it is no longer a member of 3DMark Beta Program. The respond of the company is at least a strange one and analysts now think that there are some aggressive performance optimisations in the new drivers, such as custom clip planes or absence of full Z-buffer clearing. In short, graphics cards based on NVIDIA’s GPUs show better results in 3DMark03 now. Obviously, such optimizations only work in 3DMark03,NOT IN REAL GAMES.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Actually HL2 looks better to be honest. You know one thing for sure. The story line in HL2 will be miles better then DOOM3. All Doom games stories sucked. All of them. And the character rendering in HL2 looks amazing. Another thing. It looks like monster comabt in DOOM3 won't have hordes of enemies attacking you at once. More like 1 at a time from the article i have read. Unlike HL2. Time will tell. But HL2 will be better in my estimation. And sell more copies to as the game will be scalable to all systems. Not so for DOOM3. Who has that kind of cash to run the game? Not many i bet.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

"Futuremark Caught NVIDIA On Misleading Statement3DMark03 Scandal Continuesby Anton Shilov05/27/2003 09:16 AMYou may remember that NVIDIA did not comment on its cheats in drivers that allowed graphics cards based on certain GPUs from NVIDIA to score more in Futuremark’s 3DMark03, but accused the Finnish company in developing unfair benchmarks. The company also said that Futuremark asks for hundreds of thousands US Dollars to participate in its Beta Program. Well, Futuremark denied both allegations on Monday.First of all, a Futuremark representative said that the company utilises the most-efficient shaders and rendering-patterns. Secondly, Aki Jarvilehto, Vice President Benchmark Products of Futuremark Corporation said over here that the minimum payment to join the Beta Program as a Beta Member is $5000 a year, not hundreds of thousands as NVIDIA Corporation claimed last week."Someone is lying. And it does not look like Futuremarks.......

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

I HATE AMERICA!!! I HATE MYSELF!!! I LOVE TO EAT BIRD DROPPINGS AND ITS CUM. I LOVE ALL CUM. IF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WERE LIKE HORSE CUM. I WOULD EAT IT ALL UP WITH JELLY!!! DIE ALL AMERICAN f**kS. HAHAHAHAHA!!! I HATE YOU BECAUSE MY p***s IS SO SMALL AND I HAVE TO f**k GERBILS TO CUM. THEN I EAT MY CUM. SHIN LORI I WANT TO LICK YOUR ASSHOLE. CYGOKU I WANT TO EAT YOUR SHIT AND PISS. I LOVE IT ALL!!! YOU DONT SOUND AMERICAN SO I WILL LICK YOUR ASSES CLEAN FOR YOU. BUT AMERICANS. FORGET IT!!! I WILL JUST LICK AND SUCK YOU DOGS ASS INSTEAD!!!

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

I played and beat Half-Life 1 and didnt think much of the story or gameplay and HL was suppose to be story driven but it didnt and I also didnt see much of a story. Even tho Doom does have a story which does suck but Doom wasnt meant to be story driven but only shooting driven and it does everything right in that aspect. Also, moving Half-Life out of Black Mesa is going to really hurt the gameplay and the game and yes, everything in Black Mesa was done so they couldnt go back there for HL2 so they chose something else which is there only option but if they add the Xen levels again, its really going to ruin the game cause not 1 person I talked to liked the xen levels. So if Doom stories sucked, what should I call HL story, super s0x0rz. I seen better charecter rendering then HL2 excluding Doom3. Don't expect HL 2 to have hordes of enemies and if you do want hordes of enemies, play serious sam. Also, products that sell more doesnt mean there better then the products that didnt sell too well.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Hardware publications have said that even the radeon 9500pro is 'doom 3 ready' and for sys. requirments is says you'll need at least a radeon 9700pro or fx5800u to use all high detail seetings, but yes, of course, it wont be either card to display the game running @ 50fps w. 1600x1200 max AF and AA settings.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

BTW DRDEATH, you still havent answered my question or i missed it. Which versino of directx and DET drivesr are you running with ur msiti4200? and which do u think is best for the 64gts and winxppro?

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

I did answer you in another forum. lol. This is what i said......Running directx8.1 and 30.82 drivers. (damn i am behind the times huh? lol) The 40 series suck ass. I am going to try the new ones though. See if they are good. I don't use directx9 because for one, the damn card does not support the features. lol. So why use it. I have heard to in some cases some software and games won't run properly if you have downloaded dx9 and have a dx8 or 7 compliant only gpu. Hope you gts works...

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

why isnt it worth it to play doom3 on a xbox?. give me a valuable reason that can change my mind.moron? dont call me a moron you little PC geek., okay, you just cant stand the fact that doom3 will be on xbox or stand the fact that doom3 will be just as good as the PC version, only change will be graphics which probley be hard to see for the average user. Also, most people dont have top of the line PC's that will beable to play Doom3.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Nobody cares who you guys like or don't like, what really matters is the facts in this whole issue and which company really makes the better card for the buck. If you want a really good card with a lot of options your oging to spend more for the hardware. But that doesn't mean it's going to run correctly with everything or perform any better than the card that has less options. ATI does an excellent job of maintaining great customer satisfaction and updating their drivers for ALL their cards, new and old. nVidia however with this recent report, has lost some of that trust and will not keep the name that they had earned from creating "hot cards".Lesson learned: "Cheaters never prosper."

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

WARNING WARNING IGNORANT CONSOLE PLAYER DETECTED. Listen you. I would love to see ragdoll physics like doom3's run on a 733mhz processor. I aint slagging consoles, except that most users are clueless morons.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

you know i don't believe this article...why may you ask? it's not because i'm a big Nvidia fan or because i hate ATI, it's because i've heard several other reports that said the exact opposite, so i'm led to believe that both reports are wrong and neither cheated

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

hmm where do you want me to start.you have a game like doom3in all its excellence.you have the choice of playing it on a pc or an xboxif i couldnt play it on a pc. i probably wouldnt play it. unless i had a 6.1 souround speaker system for my xbox aswell, and a keyboard and mouse. and a descent screen as opposed to a low-res TV screen. which will even further degrade the graphics which already are just that.doom 3 was made to scare the player and fully immerse him/her. thats the main idea of the game. and on xbox it simply wouldnt scare me personally

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

"An nVidia spokesperson said Since nVidia is not part of the Futuremark beta program (a program which costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars to participate in), we do not get a chance to work with Futuremark on writing the shaders like we would with a real applications developer. We don't know what they did, but it looks like they have intentionally tried to create a scenario that makes our products look bad."holy sh!t talk about a bullsh!t answer. if they were intentionally trying to make them look bad, they would have strait out siad that the FX line of vid cards suck, and are a waste of money, they wouldn't ONLY AFFECT nVidia cards to make them look bad. i think they are just trying to show nvidia that it has to be a fare playing field, and not bullshit driver tweaks. fÜck nvidia.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

WARNING WARNING IGNORANT PC PLAYER DETECTED. Listen you. ragdoll physics is already on Xbox. You may think that the 733mhz for the xbox is slow but your dumb if you think so. The xbox is stricly for gaming so its 733mhz is equivalent to a P4 1800mhz or higer and consoles are optimized for gaming.I still see console games come out with better graphics then most PC titles. HA, actually, theres more PC users who are clueless morons instead of console users, why you may ask, well if you go to the console forums, your gonna see PC users CONSOLE S0X0RZ or XBOX SUX MY ASS and right after that, they say PC Rulez!!. While most console users hardly say anything.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Ahh Who kares, People will be loyal to Nvidia, and others (like me) Loyal to ATI both cards have thier pluses and their down points.as for Benchmark Pft, only "real world" performance matters to me, when i can run JKII (along with 3dx game) with FULL goodies at 90fps I am a happy man.as long as you get over 60fps you will not notice too much, knowing you can punch 300fps is just bragin rights , but Hey I am all for that too I do it too :)

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Thanks Dr.D, sorry i missed it. man this GTS is just screaming for more cooling. the stock hardly does anythign at all. i underclocked it to run splinter cell because it's been over-heating and restarting on me. i dont wanna kill the poor fella.any one know what materials can be used to make cheap cooling options? (i hear peanut butter and sour cream work wonders :p)

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

I LOVE TO EAT HORSE SHIT AND SUCK SMALL c**kS IN THE SUMMERTIME!!! I LOVE IT WHEN THE c**k GOES IN MY MOUTH AND TASTE LIKE SHIT. LONG LIVE SADDAM AND ISLAM!!!! LONG LIVE c**kS UP MY ASS AND IN MY MOUTH!!!

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

All this B.S. makes me miss the Voodo card companies. They just made cards. No mud slinging is needed, just make us a kick ass card.Now is the perfect time for a new card company to jump into the market.And by the way, all companies cheat, if you dont know that then you are living with your head in the sand.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

----The murkiness continues because the end results of ATI's tweak are graphically identical to the proper and expected output of 3DMark2003. No visual accuracy is compromised. This stands in stark contrast to nVidia's hack, which generated graphical errors galore when the camera was turned even slightly off the standard path. Instead of fixing values beforehand, like nVidia, ATI seems to have just figured out a way to improve 3DMark2003's renderer.-----From this report from GEEK, makes Nvidia Sound like major cheaters and hack job masters.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

THEY ALL CHEAT LIKE AMERICAN KILLERS! YOUR GOVERNMENT IS BASTARDS! THEY SHOULD ALL DIE AND SUCK BIG c**k LIKE I DO. SUCK IT GOOD AND HARD. DIE AMERICA! DIE AND DRINK MY CUM AND f**k ME UP THE ASS ME!!!

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

dr.death wherever you got that quote from is wrong. the bug in 3dmark 2001 has not been shown to improve speed. so to call it a cheat is ridiculous, its actually more evidence of a smart culling bug.i like how it mentioned(as i have many times) that extremetech used the developers version of 2003 which costs thousands of dollars and futuremark requires you to be a major player in the gfx(software or hardware) field. funny but i dont see extremetech that way(come on who does?) so where did they get it from ?also note that futuremark put on their update page "nvidia caught cheating" for everyone to read yet the "ati caught cheating" was only found in the pdf you had to download(which 99% of people dont do). but they are not biased are they.

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

Anonymousyou're a f**king idiot.The xbox is stricly for gaming so its 733mhz is equivalent to a P4 1800mhz or higer and consoles are optimized for gaming.lmfao....did you pull that "1800mhz" figure out of your ass? consoles are for 13 year old sk8r fags.btw back to nvidia...i hope they f**kin die- ATI ownz da gfx scene

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

>>>oh, their doom test was better @ some places, ya wow.. like ati said, they never focused on D3, but NVIDIA DID, so read next time, they dont feel any bad about it<<<That was from Carmack himself d**khead. He said both ENGINEs performed better under different situations. He was describing hte engines, not the drivers, and this was before the NV35 you d**khead, hence it saying NV30 in the thing. :P

GFX 5900 Caught Cheating

>>>holy sh!t talk about a bullsh!t answer. if they were intentionally trying to make them look bad, they would have strait out siad that the FX line of vid cards suck, and are a waste of money, they wouldn't ONLY AFFECT nVidia cards to make them look bad. i think they are just trying to show nvidia that it has to be a fare playing field, and not bullshit driver tweaks. fÜck nvidia.<<<Trying to show it ahs to be a fare playing field? By making companies pay hundred of thousands of dollars, to get a Beta version of their test, which isnt really a good test anyway. It doesnt use calculations for both ATi and Nvidia, since the NV30 wasnt released by the time it was. And why would the slag Nvidia outright, that would turn people gainst them right there, whereas by making tests which consist of ATis stronger points, and exploit Nvidias weaker points, they get what they want. There still pissed Nvidia wouldnt pay up to be a part of the testing. And with home FM designed it to use ATi hardware specifically, can you blame them?? Also, ATi admitted to cheating, but more than likely, to avoid this sort of thing that Nvidia is having.[url removed]

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