nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Pixel Shader 3.0 may turn out to be a decisive factor in the fight for graphics supremacy between nVidia's NV40 based boards and ATIs R420 chips. As most of you will know nVidia's GeForce 6800 Ultra already supports the new feature while ATI chose not to, dismissing it as not necessary for the time being.

This time however, ATI may have got their timing wrong. Pixel Shader model 3.0 it appears, is already supported by a game, one of the most impressive ones at that, as Far Cry is already keeping its end of the way its meant to be played deal.
It has been the case in the past that new features, such as PS 3.0, needed at least 6 months to a year until they were fully supported by software. This time however, much to ATIs dismay, it seems that PS 3.0 will be supported by most major titles.

Many experts do suggest that Far Cry support for PS 3.0 is not full and that it was added only as a taster and a boost to nVidia's cause. Despite the Far Cry case though it is becoming clear that forthcoming games will also offer support for PS 3.0 with S.T.A.L.K.E.R. developers,for example, already claiming to have included it.

It seems that this may prove a sticky issue for ATI as all they can do with their developer partners, for the time being, is ask them to not activate PS 3.0 in their games. Such a request, if made, by ATI would be asking a developer to make their game technologically inferior in order to avoid assisting its rival so it may cause some friction. It will be interesting to see how Valve will handle the issue with H-L 2, although the most likely approach will be to include PS 3.0 but to avoid stressing its use at every opportunity, something nVidia partners will most definitely do.

Add new comment

CAPTCHA
This question is for testing whether you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.

Comments

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

matt18at 2:10 25/4/2004last time i heard, some german site posted projected benchmarks based on math and the specs. ATI was in the lead in those benchmarks.[url removed] its true, nvidia is the only thing laughable. boo hooo hoo, matt18 doesn't know d**k. lmao

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

projected benchmarks based on math? lol thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard. theres more to it than clock rates and frequency. theres physics, wire impedance, etc etc. theres really no exact way to calculate "benchmarks". maybe clock speed but we all know what ATI says already.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

The R420 is not even out and Nvidia fanboys are dismissing the R420 over the NV40. Hmmm. This was the same story with the NV30. When that was going to be released, Nvidia fanboys said it was going to kill the 9700pro. Never did. I forsee the same thing happening with the R420 and the NV40. And it looks like Nvidia is cheating again with 3DMARKS2003. When will they ever give up?

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

If that link is true from 3drage. The R420 in all incarnations(12 pipeline and 16 pipeline version) beat the NV40 hands down so far. And the top of the line R420 is clocked at 150mhz more then the NV40! 600MHZ. Running a low k 13nm chip helps. And the fact ATI did not waste silicon on unnessacary features which will allow them to clock the card higher and have it run cooler. More features in a card means the hotter the chip will run. Hotter the chip will run, the lower Nvidia will have to clock it. Unless they go back to the dustbuster to cool it. I don't see the NV40 going to 600MHZ without extreme cooling. Too many transistors. 200 million plus. More does not equal better in the PC world. And more equates to more heat dissapation. Looks like the R420 will be a faster chip.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Dont mean to be a winger, but nvidia never made it as a comparison between their technology and ATi tech. They were boasting their PS 3.0. But they compared it to PS 1.1, Which got ATi in a fit because poeple started to think older generation shaders (ATi's 2.0 )looked like the PS 1.1 picture comparison, because poeple imediately assumed the comparison was between 2.0 and 3.0. It was really the inquirer that said that nvidias upcomming offering supports much better image qualitiy for games, hence their mistake. Anyone who has read how 2.0 and 3.0 works will know there is no dicernable difference in immage qualitity, just 3.0 is more efficent than 2.0.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

for everyone that think ATIs just skating high performance on hardware, eat this. you know how ATI hasnt been known for "superior drivers" and Nvidia seems to role new ones out constantly, think we gotta change coming.interview with Terry Makedon from ATI! Terry is in charge of most all decisions that go into each release of ATI's Catalyst Graphics Drivers[url removed] You are the MAN when it comes to software so what can we expect to see in the near future. Can you drop us any hints as to what is in store in the near Future.Terry: Something big is coming for CATALYST in the next 2-3 months. It will take graphic drivers to a brand new level, and of course will be another ATI first. It will be interesting to see how long before other companies will copy the concept after we launch it.Not to mention new 3D Compression volumes in the r420 and r423 models, which is higher ration then the r300 (what would you expect) i love Atis graphic quality... seemingly that mixed mode for Nvidia sucks vs 4x on ATI /w smoothvision lol. the only beautiful thing i saw on the nvidia side was unreal 3 engine.lets just see whats to come shall we.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

"We are happy to see NVIDIA pushing the envelope again and giving content developers newer and better ways of doing things. This is the first tangible "jump" that NVIDIA has had in technology over ATI in the desktop graphics market for quite a while. Undoubtedly, ATI's ground breaking DX9 cards gave them a foothold with their R300 VPUs and beyond. It will be interesting to see if NVIDIA being first with SM3.0 has a similar influence on the GeForce 6 series GPU. We know from past experiences, until the hardware is on the market, content developers will not widely implement the features and then sometimes it is still not readily apparent. Can anyone say, "Transform & Lighting?"-Hardocp-Now this....."Ain't that the truth. Those of us at the European launch were shown those Far Cry screenshots you had (of the stairs and buddha) and were told they represented the difference between SM2.0 and 3.0 - which now turns out to be a complete lie. How can they create a big Powerpoint slide and have David Kirk stand up there and say "Look at the huge difference between Shader 2.0 and 3.0" when they, from reading your piece, knew full well it was Shader 1.1?And from what it seems, it may not even be SM3.0."-Hardocp.com-Typical Nvidia......PS3.0 will not make a impact until 2005. And ALL gpu's will support it then.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

"Dont mean to be a winger, but nvidia never made it as a comparison between their technology and ATi tech. They were boasting their PS 3.0. But they compared it to PS 1.1..."City og Dis, Nvidia CLAIMED they were comparing PS3.0 to PS2.0. They lied. Again. Anonymous provided some skinny on that fact below. Nvidia is trying all tactics again.All consumers want is the "truth"Something Nvidia finds hard to provide these days after the 9700pro launch. Then again, maybe they were doing this form of desecption when the first Gforce card came out. At that time no one checked to see anomilies or cheating....times have changed. Nvidia needs to do the same.....

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Hi guys i was just wondering with all this talk about new graphic cards etc..i have a hercules 9700 pro, when do you think i will need to upgrade?i keep hearing in reviews if you have a 9800xt you wont need to upgrade in ages..but how longs ages. how long do you think the X800 and 6800 will last out for? when i mean last.. i mean compete in providing high quality graphics performance to the top games?

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

ok ur card will last but if u want max graphics dude, ur already out the window! And then the 9800XT will last a while too but on that , max graphs maean slow FPs and finally the new NV40 a R420 will last about 2 years easily... startin off well and then goin bad... :D

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

"If ATI dun support PS 3.0,it will end up like 3dfx when the company released Voodoo 5 without T&L support(pre-PS)versus Nvidia's Geforce 256(the original).The rest of the story is history"Do your history. The Geforce3 card did nt support PS1.4 and the 8500 did. And PS1.4 was used by some current games at that time also. Nvidia did not go anywhere. The same will hold true for ATI. And PS3.0 has the same visual effects as PS2.0. You need to research before you post 13. That must be you age....

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Then again. T&L was not used in that generation with the 1st geforce card. It was used in games the following year. New technology takes almost 1 year to be fully implemented. This is the very reason ATI opted not to support PS3.0 And a wise decision. Use less silicon and features to free up speed. The very reason the R420 can be clocked at 600MHZ and still be a single slot card. Nvidia. if they want to try and clock the NV40 to that level, they will need major cooling. Too many transistors on that chip to do otherwise. Extra features come at a cost. Especially when they are not needed. Mpeg4 encoding? Waste. GPU's are for gaming. 128bit color vs. 96bit? Never see the difference. Never have. Never will. Case in point. The NV30. Before Nvidia cheated in various benchmarks, the NV30 ran at 32FP(128BIT COLOR PRECISION) The output looked exactly the same as ATI cards.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Well if you think the R420 will last 2 years, then you must think his 9700pro is still good, because it hasn't been 2 years since August 2002 yet.Truth is, Steve, for most games the 9700pro is still good. Just not top of the line. If you don't mind playing at 1024 x 768 resolution and on *a few* games lowering the graphics settings to maybe medium then it will continue to work fine for you.The 9700pro is not far behind the other *current* leaders (the 6800 Ultra not included - since it is not available yet)For example in Halo @ 1024 x 768 the GeForce FX 5950 gets 58.5 frames per second and the 9700pro gets 48.1 FPS. That's not that bad especially for the price difference. Incidentally the 9800XT gets 59.5 FPS. It's currently the best card on the market. :)Your 9700pro is still good unless you want to spend an extra 250 bucks or more for 10 more frames per second.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

What isn't understood well about that is that for 3d gaming there will be no difference in performance between ps2.0 and 3.0 because no one writing a 3d-game engine is going to be using shader instruction loops, >50 shader instructions per scene on average, and most especially conditional branching. Why? Because even on nV40 it would be far too slow and framerates would drop like a stone to quickly land in the single-digits, which of course is quite unacceptable for 3d gaming. Let's talk conditionally.*IF* you actually wanted to write, say, an ~800 shader-instruction chain for a scene under ps3.0 which would require looping (multiple passes, as it exceeds 512 instructions), *AND* you wanted to employ conditional instructions as well, you *COULD* certainly, and without question, do that faster under a decent hardware implementation of 3.0 than you could under 2.0....*BUT* the result would still be crawling framerates in the single-digits. And that's why no one in his right mind would want to do that in his 3d game. So just from Tamasi's description it's as easy to see that ps3.0 will be as "important" to game developers in the next few years as the nV35/8's fp32 was to them during the past 18 months, and I cannot think of a single game released in the past 18 months which actually *requires* fp32 to run (meaning that the game requires fp32 color precision to display accurately as intended without artifacts)...;) So, while nV40 ps3.0 support for features >ps2.x makes a great marketing bullet for nV40, it has no practical value whatever for 3d gaming. And that Unreal video. It's using a Hybrid of PS2.0 and PS3.0......

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Unreal3 won't be released until 18 months from now. By then, every GPU will have PS3.0 support and true 128bit color. Just as simon has said. It won't be a factor this year. The same way T&L was not a factor until the following year. And the same way PS1.4 meant little over PS1.1 when that came out. It took game developers 1 year or more to fully put it in games. Almost all the games out now use PS1.1, PS1.4, and some PS2.0. At this point the only game to fully use PS2.0 is HL2. All other games use multi-shader apps. Just like FarCry and Stalker....

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

The topic is so misplaced. "nVidia ATI fight over ps3.0 support"?ATI isn't fighting for a PS3.0 support. Now would I be fighting over a million dollar if I DON'T HAVE SOME??? Cuz that would be stupid :-P Sure, ATI will have a PS3.0 support in the future (key word: in the future), but now, only nVidia is having one. Dude, get your articles straight.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Well, the article is actually referring to the fact that ATi and nVidia are fighting over whether or not PS3.0 is important right now. (which for the most part it is not)I don't think many people realize that while the 6800 Ultra DOES support PS3.0, it is NOT available right now, so saying that nVidia supports PS3.0 now is false. And I don't think ATi has said anywhere that the X800 XT will not support it, so we'll see what happens when the true competition begins.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Anonymous said: "oh ati did say that they will not include ps30 support alright. and yes, nvidia does support ps30 right now."________________________No, ATi might have said that the X800 Pro will not support PS3.0, but they never said that the X800 XT will not.And no, nVidia does not have any card on the market that supports PS3.0. Just try and buy a 6800 Ultra. You can't.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

DeQuosaek said: "And no, nVidia does not have any card on the market that supports PS3.0. Just try and buy a 6800 Ultra. You can't."You're right. But the only card that supports PS3.0 right now IS Nvidia 6800 Ultra. And IF the X800 XT will include a PS3.0 support then it's there because Nvidia is using one.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

hey listen bitches!There is no difference between PS 3.0 and 2.0. There is no such thing as a pure PS 3.0 either, even far cry uses a combination of PS 1.1 and 2.0. Nvidia and crytek are cheaters. Nvidia was comparing 1.1 to shader model 3.0. The spec number doesn't mean shit. Anyways ATI has claimed that despite of Nvidia's lies the R420 hardware will have better image quality and be faster by a considerable margin. DX spec is bullshit, the default code path is 1.1. HL-2 has the best graphics, better than unreal3. and that game is a a PS 2.0 pathed game.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

"Will Pixel Shader 3.0 and 32bit precision matter in the real world of gaming? We believe so, however, we also think that NVIDIA’s advance support of it is a bit premature in the sense that games haven’t caught up to it yet and by the time they do, NVIDIA will have a different GPU out anyway."-gamersdepot.com-It's a good read. They interview different Programmers and ask them their take on PS3.0 vs. PS2.0.It's interesting to see the companies that are in the "Way It's Meant To Be Played" program say PS3.0 will make a huge difference. Then the Companies that are not say the exact opposite.A little $$$ thrown by GPU companies to game developers can always alter your decisions i assume. ;)However it looks to be the same old spin. New technology takes time to catch on. Considering game developement time is 6-18 months, don't expect to see too many titles that are of the PS3.0 variety. Then again, that could also be said of PS2.0. At this time, almost all games are using various shader models. PS1.1,PS1.4,PS2.0 and you will see PS3.0 also.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

"A little $$$ thrown by GPU companies to game developers can always alter your decisions i assume."A little $$$ trown by ATI to benchmark companies can always make them say that Nvidia cheat.And those gaming companies that are supporting Nvidia is some of the biggest gaming companies in the world. Not like the gaming companies who partnered with ATI. They can't even finish that overrated Half-Life2 in time lmao!Stop whining and get over it, Nvidia is better and that's a fact.

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

NVIDIA's new card delivers a performance jump not seen for a long time. The device is also solidly engineered as well as insanely fast.12.000 points in 3DMark 2003. A score of over 60.000 in AquaMark 3. Over 60fps in Halo at 1600x1200 and more than 50fps in FarCry with High FSAA and 4tap anisotropic filtering at 1024x768 - these are numbers that will bring tears of joy to PC enthusiasts everywhere.-Tom's Hardware----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"In the near future, we are pretty sure that Nvidia is going to win the graphics crown back from ATI.""Nvidia will win the race hands down. Nvidia will be unchallenged in the power race."IF PEOPLE - read the ATi fanboyz who bothered to flame us - thought we were overconfident in this article, estimating the huge performance jump Nvidia were going to make when introducing its sixteen pipeline NV40, then they're going to have to think again.Numerous sources have confirmed that a Futuremark 3DMark 2003 score of12,535 has apparently been demonstrated by Nvidia on its pre-production engineering samples.So, if what we're hearing about Nvidia's NV40 is true, then its sixth generation desktop 3D graphics accelerator is shaping up to be mighty.However, in light of today's news, we'll mention that that same source said that the ATI R420 was slower.Sources close to ATI have said that a score of 10,000 3DMarks for ATi R420 "would be a dream", indicating that R420 Revision: CeBIT 2K4 wasn't pulling this level of numbers.-The Inquirer-

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

ATI cards won't have pixel shader 3.0 support as they're based on similar marchitecture to R300 core and will stick to PS 2.0128 bit precision will also be missing as ATI chip can support 24 bit per colour - 96 bit altogether.It's clear now that there will be no support from ATI for PS 3.0 and no 128 bit precision which puts them behind NVIDIA.-The Inquirer----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------R423, the PCI-Express (PCX) version of R420, is scheduled to launch June 14th. Specifications on R423 are identical to R420, still without the PS3.0 support. The cards will also carry the Radeon X800 product name. Both will receive a speed-bump refresh called the R480 with slightly similar specifications.-Anand Tech-

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

how can PS2.0 be better than PS3.0 when PS3.0 has everything PS2.0 has and more? no difference between PS2.0 and PS3.0? PS3.0 is useless you said? won't be used til next year or more? meanwhile some games are already supporting it even if it's still in an early stage but that's a huge start. any advancement is good. that's why it's called advancements, doh. i really like your logic atidiots, you're very clever :)

nVidia ATI Fight Over PS 3.0 Support

Anonymous on 17.12: "HL-2 has the best graphics, better than unreal3."f**k no. Did you even see the Nvidia Unreal3 video? Scroll down and find the URL that guy posted and download the video because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Pages

Add new comment