Doom 3 Performance - ATI Fights Back

link to the article?

hehe second comment! yay..havent read it yet.. now i will

Yeah course it'll get better with driver updates.

Yeah course it'll get better with driver updates

yeah right....games NEVER increase in performance as quoted in the readme.txt's - either the games work - or they fall over. ATI should not have to re-write the Open-GL code to get Doom3 working well, they should have had the Open-GL support right from the start. Its not like its a new format that nobody knows about. I spent almost £400 on a 9800 pro 256 and I dont expect to loose out just coz ATI hedges their bets on the good games supporting Direct 3D instead of Open-GL

better!!!

will this game work on my Digimon?.

lol ati will own nvidia in EVERYTHINGo and hardocp suck rook

click download for the links.anyway i got x800 pro so i hope ati can do some good work with their drivers and get some more performance in doom3. one thing i cant stand is shitty framerates in my games.

dammit why the hell cant i post?

lol ppl like nvidia h8r amuze me, they dont know anything about computers, and the come up on here saying this sucks and that sucks cuz its not agreeing with what they have in their computers

no soulraver see your the retard. all the people that know almost anything past how to use a computer doesnt like nvidia. the huge bandwagon of 'gamers' that started up in the last year are all idiots that dont know what they are putting into their computer. and anyways this game is probly just a, hmm I'll call it demo, for their game engine so they can sell he engine to other companys and make tons of money thet way.

to the guy spent £400 on a 9800 pro.you should do what i do.spend like you did and get a top range card, then when a new 1 comes out sell your older one before it loses its value to fund the newest one out. it will cost you about £50 on top but you dont end up with an outdated card.i got 9800xt for £330 and have just sold it for £260 on ebay and that money went to my x800 pro which i have now. soon this will be sold on as in 2 months i am getting the x800xt pe.

wait a sec, wasnt the ati fanboyz qouting articles from hardocp bout how good ati is?? now they say they suck d**k?? christ ppl need to stick 2 what they have the included the nvidiots 2. when i see some HL2 benchmarks then ill make up my mind on what card to get

omg let me guess ati will "release new drivers", i guess they did not have time to "tweak" these drivers. both companies had no access to the doom demo, both were asked to bring their latest cards and drivers, why can't ati just accept the fact that they lost to nvidia's mid range card.

just buy cards from evga they have a step up program so if you buy a gfx in 90 days a better one comes out you can trade that one in and pay the difference.

LISTEN and listen well, Nvidia does not use full percision only partial, which is why they are a few frames faster, while on the other ATI cards push full pp all the time.

right i forget how ati smudges

and trying to use a ugly looking red head with big boobs as a marketing strategy is really low.

What I want to see is some tests comparing games with ati's 3dc to those same games with the feature diabled. Probably not doom 3 since Carmack is whipped by nvidia, but probably farcry and later on half-life 2. Right now it's still pretty hard to decide which card is the best but I'm thinking ATI will come out in the end.

Who said this isnt just propaganda?

Nvidia and ATI are both good.It's all about prefence. If you want a ATI then get a ATI or if you want a Nvidia then get a Nvidia so shut up and don't say so and so sucks. Really, who gives a f**k.

Out come the fanboys.If u read correctly u will see Nvidia uses partial precision where ATI has vowed to only use Full precision.This may not cause a change of image qualrty on certain dark games but can produce change on other titles.Anyway why we all complaining it's V. playable on both cards ^o^

dont bitch about fanboys because you hl2 fagboyz bash the doom articles all the time. remember how ati was caught cheating in most cases with full precision?

simon, hmm what a good name for a dumbass. it doesnt matter whos precision ati uses what matters are the benchmarks, that is what talks. untill ati can tweak their drivers so they smudge and cheat again nvidia remains a winner. there is still no excuse for a 6800gt to do better than a x800pe. am i clear on this? there is also no excuse for x800s not to support ps3 and dx9c. you are after all investing 500 bucks for the damn card dont you want it to last you a long time? its like buying a new car with everything exccept airconditioning. why not get the most out of your(i hope) hard earned cash.

hey smarter than, what's with the ati will come out on top spiel. I couldn’t give a rats 1mm balls about nvidia or ati. I have owned all of ati’s high end products since the 9700 pro, and it’s not because I love ati or something. Infact I hate ati every single ati card that I have ever owned has been faulty and died, they were still covered under warranty but it’s the inconvenience that pisses me of. Take my 9800 xt it has died 4 times and I didn’t over clock it, and it is very well cooled, what kind of unstable crap are these guys making. The problem is that it was the quickest crap and that gets me every time. As for the latest generation of cards it is way to early to speculate, I mean if nvidia successfully implements SLI then ati are well and truly up shit creek with out a paddle. But who knows and it will be a while before the real victor emerges from all the smoke, slander to take the crown on this seasons 3d war.

Mozes, you must have a $hit computer if your 9800 XT has died 4 times, I have had my 9800 XT for 6 months, overclock it all of the time and it has never died, if I start gettin pauses or graphics corruption I just lower the speed slightly. IF you keep on playin when this happens, that is how you wreck cards, and don't think that Nvidia cards are any different!

Bugger the current top of the line cards anyhow, has everyone forgot about PCI-E? Wait untill the next generation of PCI-E cards arrive they will blow the current cards out of the water! Not only that I don't understand why people would fork out so much money for an extra 10-20 FPS? Trust me guys I have been upgrading for 15 years, and I do it for a living, wait a little, then get the PCI-E card, that is going to be the greatest performance revolution of the modern era !

Thorn, you are an idiot. The latest cards ARE available as PCI-E. The fact that they are PCI-E rather than AGP really means nothing anyway.... Wheres the performance benefit? I dont see one that justifies it.Sure, in a year's time all of the bling bling cards will be PCI-E, but thats irrelevant. They'd still blow your nuts off in an AGP 8x slot

And, in response to your comment about the guy who fries his cards all the time, he has every right to complain if what he says is true. Noone should HAVE to have a clock changer utility to tone the clocks down. I'm not saying that hes not an idiot that built his comp in an oven with only one fan (which he might well be), but if his cards fail like he says i think he has every right to be pissed off.FYI, I have a 9800 Pro flashed and clocked >XT and I couldnt be happier with it. My last card was a FX5200, and at the time that suited me fine too, because i couldnt afford faster. All the stupid brand wars don't mean shit as long as you get a price/performance ratio that works for you.

Heh, nvidia running at pp (which i dont even know for sure if it does) wont if barely affect graphics detail. Image quality is just as good as the radeons. Not running at full presition winging is stupid. If it gives ATi more frames they should do it too.

"In response to an enquiry by Team Radeon, ATIs Chris Hook has suggested that since the game has not been officially released yet, we shouldn't rush to any conclusions "funny - nvidia said the same thin when ati cashed in with hl2

"funny - nvidia said the same thin when ati cashed in with hl2"At least there is a release date Within a week of time. HL2 hasn't been completed yet nor launched GOLD.

I doubt the drivers will do 'that' much it's different hardware. 6800 series was made with D3 in mind and posibly unreal3 so Ati have alot of hard work ahead of them.I can sergest you get a better computer fan or set the 9800xt card to x4 it's really nothing maybe 3-4fps and may stop your computer from overheating.

"Heh, nvidia running at pp (which i dont even know for sure if it does) wont if barely affect graphics detail. Image quality is just as good as the radeons. Not running at full presition winging is stupid. If it gives ATi more frames they should do it too."City, the issue here is Nvidia has been pushing the fact that the NV40 line runs at FP32 all the time(The required specifications of PS3.0!)So much so, their PR campaign has put everything into that fact. Not too mention 60 million extra transistors. Now Nvidia is requesting certain game developers to create their games to run in FP16 not FP32! One such company is the maker of FarCry. CryTek. This is the very reason why i have lost confidence in Nvidia 3 years ago. And with the bullshit deal with Creative Labs they made also. This just adds to it. The real sad part about the Partial percision and partial shader nonesense is the fact that when Nvidia does this, their NV40 cards no longer run the required Floating point for EITHER PS2.0 or PS3.0. ATI cards run FP24 all the time. Not FP16. And Crytek is releasing patch 1.3 that will fully support 3Dc texture compression. Which inturn will speed the game up considerably. Even more so at higher resolutions and with the must AA and Fsaa on.Still waiting to see if John Carmack alows 3dc to be used for DOOM3. Likely not to happen since Nvidia paid millions to help develop the game. 3Dc would increase the speed of that game by good margins. Especially since 512Meg cards can be used inconjunction with compressed textures."Heh, nvidia running at pp (which i dont even know for sure if it does) wont if barely affect graphics detail. Image quality is just as good as the radeons. Not running at full presition winging is stupid. If it gives ATi more frames they should do it too."[url removed]

"Nvidia encouraged Crytek to use partial precision in the shaders wherever possible. This means that many of the shaders will run in 16-bit precision, not the 32-bit precision (a requirement of SM3.0) that they are touting to the press. Ironically, while promoting the 32-bit precision of SM3.0 as a "must have", Nvidia is asking developers to use less precision than was available in SM1.0 - that is, all the way back in DirectX8! Even more ironically, ATI hardware will run most of the FarCry shaders more accurately (ATI hardware runs all shaders in 24-bit precision). Microsoft, the owner of DirectX, defines 24-bit and greater as "full precision" and 16-bit as "partial precision", Nvidia has claimed that ATI paid Crytek to delay the patch and include ATI features (the figure mentioned was $500k!)."So there you have it, some of the facts, and some rumours.... nonetheless Crytek has committed to delivering 3Dc support in patch v1.3, which will provide higher detail images, or free up memory with better compression than traditional normal map compression options. FarCry is a great example of a next generation title that uses normal maps extensively. When the "final" patch arrives, we will be giving it a good going over and posting indepth results."[url removed] read. Just when you thought Nvidia ws going to use FP32 exclusively. They are still fudging with lower percision and partial shaders. Bad boy Nvidia. Bad. Looking to see FrCry support 3Dc in it's game. Oh the war is looking good. Hopefully the prices will lower and DOOM3 will support 3dc especially when the 512 cards come out. That will give the game huge performance increases. WON'T HOLD MY BREATH THOUGH. ;)

20 bucks says all of these people are ati employees who are from "team radeon"(what a cute name), they are posting here disguised as normal non ati employees to get shit off their chest and brain wash you. if ati cards are so much better why dont they have ps3.0 and dx9c?

for all you idiots that keep bagging me out for frying my 9800xt lissen up, i'm running my hardware in a quality antec case with an antec truepower 550watt psu, with 2x 80mm extraction fans, and 3x 80mm intakes. The inside of my case is normally 24-30 degress celcius. I don't over clock any of my system, and damn right i have the right to be pissed of. The vendor tells me that i'm just un lucky and that he's never seen anything like it. But hay i suppose that i'm lucky in one respect i have recieved 4 cards for the price of 1. Lets hope this current card is finally stable.

if you knew that doom3 was not supporting 3dc and whatever full precision then why were you expecting to win this "race". if you knew all this then you would not be posting things like ati will be better...blah blah blah.as soon as benchmarks are out and official you start bitching this and that. just take it like a man when the fx was worse than 9800 we said yes only in dx9 not open gl, or whatever, but this was fair and square why cant you pussies take this defeat like a man. if nvidia did pay id, good for them you had your chance ati, because of a dumb f**k who you employ leaks the damn thing all over the place just f**ked it up for you. that is a slap on the wrist for f**king it up. i dont care if nvidia and doom3 use pp fp what ever. the game looks fine i dont really care for something i wont notice a differnce on. its like complaining about your eyes not being able to pick up ultra violet from the sun. does it bother you, you can still see everyting, who cares.

Mozes: That is the weirdest thing I have heard of, I work in the industry and I haven't seen anyone needing 4 cards unless they have a major hardware problem like a motherboard issue, the chances of you getting 4 faulty cards in a row is pretty slim!

Anonymouse at 1:44, I am talking about future PCI-E cards, ones that take full advantage of PCI-E's power, the new cards might work on PCI-E systems but the drivers and technology hasn't even begun to catch up with it. If you don't believe me just wait and look at the benchmarks of the current cards compared to a year down the track.

stfu m0zes. Don't come here and bitch cause you don't know f**k all about computers. Heat is obviously not the problem, you probably have shitty motherboard or you don't know how to set up your bios. Man, you are such a loser in life.

it is not likely but still possible.

stfu me rumple foreskin, you can take your rumpled up forskin and jam it up you boy friends ass. It's not a mobo problem i'm running an abit ic7-g and its stable. My bios setup is perfect, and i had my vendor check it when i recieved my 3rd card just to make sure. Every card has had exactly the same problem, corrupt memory. Hopefully it won't happen again. Thorn the chances are slim, but then again if it was going to happen to someone it would happen to me. Also thorn you are right that PCI-E needs a bit of time to mature, but we will also need some software to take advantage of the extra bandwidth available. One other thing to compare the current PCI-E cards with their AGP siblings is not really fair. You are not really comparing how good the cards are, but the fact that PCI E system will be equipped with up to DDR2 1066 memory, higher memory bandwidths and better processors.

what is everyone talking about??? the first doom 3 beta demo showed that the fx 5800 was faster than the 9800 pro... now we know that this is not true and infact the fx line can not run shader 2.0 with out a huge performance hit. all of these demo programs are set up to use the newest newest nividia drivers, now if we wait until the game is out we will see ati make a driver update for doom 3 that will change things (nividia in turn will do the same for hl2... because i know that the ati card will be better from the beginning as well).so both cards are good... the drivers just need to be updated to run games that were made for the other video card company.this is something to think about if you are looking to buy a new video card.ati x800 (or better) needs a power full cpu to run it at full power (AMD 64 to a P4 extreme edition) with every web site the best ati card with an AMD 64 3400 + cpu (set at a high iq) will out perform the 6800 (same card level... E.G. 6800 GT to X800 pro)now does that mean you should buy an ati... no... if you do not plan to buy a brand new motherboard cpu and just want to add it to your good AMD or P4 (2000 to 3000 level CPU)system, then buy a 6800. you will get better performance out of it than with any ati modelnow what is the fastest card???(even if you look at a doom 3 machine (set at a high iq)) it would be an AMD FX-53 with an ATI X800 XT-PE video card. but who has the money for it... for us average high end user a 6800 will do fine and be better, but if we already have those next gen cpu then get ATI.[url removed] iq = AA and AF. the higher the multiplier the better the visual qualityboth companies went with different tech. nividia does shader 3.0 and ATI does 3Dc. both will gain more performance but what is better???i believe that 3dc will be better in the long run (if you still own a 2000 to 3000 cpu) it will increase performance more than shader 3.0 (with

continue...the best visuals of shader 3.0 compared the the gained texture surface of 3dc... 3dc will have more of a visual impact on the whole game than shader 3.0) but if not enough games use it then shader 3.0 will win.

one thing to consider though 19:23 is that no graphics card will beable to run d3 at max settings without a 512 mb graphics card.

if you look more carefully the 5950 does better than 9800 on high setting

If they can't implement 3Dc into Doom 3 (or can they?) then what about the engine's other games further down the line?

"if ati cards are so much better why dont they have ps3.0 and dx9c?"Because it's a waste of time as seen so far. Only 1 game uses it and that won't change until 2005 when ATI releases the R500 that will support it. And then you will also see the NV50. ATI saved 60+ million transistors in doing so.